TenthFleet talk:Community portal

Tenth Fleet Community Portal Talk page

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The following is a transcript of a conversation on Discord occurring July 20, 2026, captured for posterity:

MDGarcia Fair warning, the GW2 wiki is released under GFDL 1.3 which requires attribution or else we have to delete it all. If you're pulling content or templates or infrastructure from that wiki, you have to do so in compliance with that license. I would also, as an aside, just reach out and ask permission to foster good relations.

CMagnani I understand what you're telling me. It's my understanding, regarding copyright law, that content is copyrighted, but a layout or other bits of infrastructure cannot be copyrighted.

The intent in the creation of some established infrastructure is for getting things accomplished within the wiki. I do not intend to keep whats written, as is. Re-writes & reviews are intended for everything I'm putting up. Much of it has to do with spurring conversation within our team to establish our own various communication methods/methodology, and practices & procedures. The specific design is intended to be changed/adapted. I'm also attributing most pages currently with a link to where it's at on the GW2 wiki, so I'm not hiding anything. The important aspects of this project is for us to establish/spur conversation about some important pages, processes, and considerations for the tenth fleet wiki. I fully expect & intend for the content of the Help:Contents page (with all the pages it contains) will be pushed, pulled, and reshaped, probably into something that looks very little, if at all, like what it started as.

I can reach out to the GW2 Wiki Team if you want me to. Or we can use the information contained on GW2's Help:Contents page to build out what we need/could use, on our own. Or... we can just delete it all. That's up to you.

How do you want to proceed?

MDGarcia Presently, there is ArenaNet IP and you also have broken dependencies because they run extensions we don't, like Semantic. I think the best way forward is to look at what they're doing and build something comparable without cutting/pasting and introducing broken infrastructure. If you copy anything verbatim, it's going to have some of their copyrightable IP on it. That's why I suggested earlier to use the Sandbox namespace, so it's not visible on our public pages. If you want to play with it, put it in the Sandbox. Don't put it on TenthFleet: or Help: This page: https://wiki.tenthfleet.org/wiki/index.php/TenthFleet:Reporting_wiki_bugs

It is absolutely littered with broken deps.

I get what you're saying about spuring conversation, and I'm happy to have it. I think it's confusing to put it all in a live namespace that's searchable. I would humbly ask you to relocate all of that to Sandbox:Reporting_wiki_bugs so that it's away from the public's eyes.

CMagnani Yes, I understand there were dependencies. I was intending to more thoroughly go through everything, I've set up so far, to see what worked and what didn't, perhaps learning how/why.

Part of the problem here is that we don't have the pages Users need to work/communicate with Admins & tech team (you & Shon) effectively yet, especially to work on larger projects like this, and we haven't yet established those methods & procedures. This is a problem I've been seen at for the past 6 years, and have stared at the solution for the past 3, so I decided to "Be Bold" in making stuff. None of the stuff I've added went without scrutiny; I went through and changed quite a bit already, fixing things further as I learned & grasped more.

Please keep in mind, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, nor difficult. It's been less than 24 hours since I started digging in & adding the basic infrastructure elements i feel we need for a long-term, successful wiki. (It's already worlds better than I've ever seen a TRMN wiki to be.!) The wiki doesn't have effective tools (eg Admin Noticeboard, technical administration, projects pages, and the community portal) & procedures yet to communicate these things amongst the team. (you can see where my priorities in that regard were on the Help:Contents page itself, by the presence of gold links vs red links). Communicating just here in the Discord space isn't really effective, especially long-term, and probably not best practice to capture design decisions on-wiki. I was also constantly checking to make sure I wasn't breaking or interfering anything visible, like the small error to do with the dynamic list, that got resolved....

At the end of the day, part of the reason I'm here working on this is for some deep learning of wiki editing & maintenance. I don't want to be relegated to just be fixing typos. I also want to help build the infrastructure to promote & strengthen the TRMN community, and new members., and the various other initiatives I'm supposed to be involved with here.

I will start deleting the pages I created, if you want me to; no worries at all, no bad blood, nothing to worry about. I'm here to try to solve problems, not create them.

MDGarcia First off, you're right, and I don't want any of this to read as me telling you to stop. Be Bold is the policy, and you're using it exactly the way it's meant to be used. Honestly the wiki hasn't looked this good in the whole time I've been around, and that's because you dug in instead of waiting for permission. Keep doing that. And you nailed the real problem: we've got no on-wiki place to actually have this conversation. That's the gap you've been staring at for years, and you're right that Discord isn't where design decisions should live long-term. So the answer here isn't "slow down," it's "let's build the thing that lets us do this together."

On the broken-link pages, I think we're closer than it sounds. My concern was never which namespace they sit in, it was just that a few of them render broken or look finished when they're still cooking. So instead of me asking you to shove everything to Sandbox, how about this as our rule of thumb: if a page renders clean and we flag it as a work-in-progress, it stays live. That's Be Bold, no argument. If it's throwing visible errors or pulling dead dependencies, we either fix it or park it until it's fixed. I'll get us an

{{Under construction}}

banner so the half-built ones are honestly labeled without getting exiled.

Two things I do want handled sooner rather than later, and neither is about boldness: the actual Guild Wars 2 game images/names need to come out (that's ArenaNet's copyright, separate from the GFDL text), and anything throwing a hard render error should get stubbed so it's not sitting broken in the maintenance categories. Small cleanup, I'm happy to help with it. For the bigger win: let's stand up the coordination pages you're really after: an admin/tech noticeboard, a projects/WikiProject page to capture decisions on-wiki, and a native community portal (the current one's still pointing back at GW2). Built as ours from the ground up rather than imported, so they're clean and match our style. That gives us the venue this whole exchange proves we need, and it means the next big project like this one has a home.

So my vote: keep going, we banner the WIP ones instead of sandboxing them, pull the game IP and dead deps now, and I'll help you build out the noticeboard/projects/portal so we've finally got real tools to work with. Sound good? And seriously thank you for the push. This is the good kind of problem to have.

CMagnani That's great to hear! I'm absolutely all for building up those pages from the ground up. Honestly, that was a big part of the intent... Just to at least get something going in that regard, with the details & examples of what processes a larger team has honed over the years to refine. This wasnt about creating specific pages, its about getting the processes in place so that it works for us all, so for that, thank you for understanding that. I genuinely appreciate that. I remember part of my frustration years ago with the wiki was that it didn't have this kind of infrastructure to work collaboratively as a team, and there weren't any regular team meetings, so nothing ever really got done, and it just fizzled & withered. I don't want to see our efforts here go down that road. I think, at this point, since I think i got most of the basic infrastructure pages i think we need created, I'll switch gears from creating pages, to writing stuff for the pages that have been created already.

At some point (when we've written the appropriate page), we should probably copy & paste this conversation over onto that page. I think it's an important one to capture.

MDGarcia Okay I've put up an Admin noticeboard. https://wiki.tenthfleet.org/wiki/index.php?title=TFW:AN And we have a Projects board as well.